2016/10/10 at 10:47 #992
hello to all,
here is an update from david (better english and some examples in () as well. it would be nice to discover the differences and to decide which word/expression we will implement in our version.
## a big hug and thanks to david ##
any relpy welcome.2016/10/10 at 22:24 #1024
hello to all,
today i get a mail from martin – not member of familiafeliz but in contact and still interested in the projects and also in developing the charter.
i will paste his mail and mark it colored green. i will translate it (marked in red, sorry for mistakes) – best way i could do it – and then i will place the answer (marked in blue)… all step by step.
before: a big thank you to MARTIN for your time and deep exploration of the charter.
wie gestern besprochen hier mein Feedback zu folgendem Dokument:
This is not the actual draft, but ok. I will refer to this and give answers here accourding to the newest version!
Warum die Referenz auf die europäische Kultur? Um die Esoteriker rauszuhalten? :-)=
Translation: Why a reference to european culture?
This is an example of the different drafts. In the new version we erased this part, because we decided, it is not clear, what “european culture” means. So you are right, good to have it erased yet! 🙂
2.1.1 Ist die Gruppe beschlussfähig, wenn einer fehlt? Wenn ja, wieviele dürfen fehlen, wie oft etc.? Darf man virtuell teilnehmen (Skype, Telko)?
Translation: Is the group able to decide if somebody is missing, if yes, how many could be missed? Is it possible to join the plenum virtuell (skype, whatsapp,phone…)?
First a general answer. If you dont read anything about it, its not part of the rules. Therefore the first answer is YES. The plenum is able to decide, equal how many members are physically there. And NO to the second part, it is a MUST to join one time a year the most important event to link the group. This design is a strong copy of cecosesola in Venecuela, the biggest living and working community i know (more than 43.000 members!). If you are missed in the plenum (of the working unit in the case of this community) you lost membership. We think, three times in a line is ok, it means, you could make a personal spiritual trip to india for 3 years (minus one day). If you pass this annual event, we expect less interest in the community.
Was, wenn El Drac 0.1 irgendwann mal nur aus Working Units besteht? Wer lädt dann ein?
Translation: What happened if EL-DRAC in the future is only constructed by working units? Who will apply for arranging the next plenum?
We think, everybody has a home unit anyway. It could be a house, a mobile home, a tend, whatever. Every member has the right to apply for accreditation of a new home unit at any time (decission about that in the next plenum). We could not imagine that this happens. Even a temporary waggon place could be a temporary home unit of some members and therfor the place for the next plenum.
2.1.3 Wie kommt Ihr auf 23 Jahre? Kommt ein Pärchen zu Euch, er 25, sie 22 – werdet Ihr die abweisen? Oder ist sie dann einfach für ein Jahr kein FF-Mitglied? Und kann nicht an Gruppenentscheidungen mitwirken, also wie ein Kind?
Translation: How you get the number 23 years? What happened if a couple will enter the group and he is 25 and she is 22 – do you reject her, or both? Or is she able to stay, but not as a member? Could she be excluded from decissions, like a children?
First: ah… thank you for those questions. i love it! It give the right context to explain and expand the deep thinking of this charter.
The number 23 was a compromise between corinna antje and me, my favorite number was 25. The idea behind was, hat in north european and western societies a person becomes adult with 18 years and in law sometimes with 21. Our idea was, that we want applications only from those people with experience outside of the group. otherwise we feel, some children will take the easy way and hang around after 18 years hoping to become member automatically. we want to give any mother and father the picture from the beginning that the education is based on the rule that the children could not be member automatically. thats behind.
so back to your example. you have to understand another very important thing. And thanks again that i am able to point it out here. The group is NOT the home unit. In the charter you find no sentence about inner construction of the units. In your case the result will be this.
Independent from the application of the man, the woman could be part of the home unit. A unit is defined as a tool to develop something with at least one member of FamiliaFeliz. So in your example both could be member of the home unit, but “he” is the only one who could apply for membership – at the moment.
She will have no right to vote in the annual plenum, but she will be a full member of the home unit – with all rights. But… this is part of the home unit members and not in the focus of familiafeliz. This is very important to understand.
How many rights she will have in that home unit will be defined and organized by that unit, NOT by the group and therefor NOT defined in the charter.
Wer kein Mitglied in Working Units ist, ist »excluded from the community group«? Wenn sich z.B. eine Frau nach einer Geburt aus allen Arbeits-Einheiten effektiv zurückzieht, ist sie auch nicht mehr Teil der »community group«? Vielleicht ist sie und ihr Partner noch Teil einer Home-Unit, und Gruppenentscheidungen betreffen sie, sodass sie an Plena teilnehmen möchte. Zusätzlich ist es m.E. ein unglückliches Signal: Unvereinbarkeit von »Repro-Arbeit« und Mitgliedschaft in FF. Ähnlich bei: Krankheit, Sabbatjahr etc.
Translation: somebody who is not member of working unit is exculded from the community group? If a woman after getting a children is concentrated in taking care of the baby, she lost the membership of the group? Maybe she is still living in a home unit and she like to join a plenum, some group decissions have effects for her maybe. I feel its a bad signal, “human reproduction” and membership = exculsion from Famailiafeliz, similar in case if health problems or sabatnics.
Oh yes. another big block of questions, step by step.
First question yes. If nobody want to work with you and if you are not engaged in minimum one working unit we dont see you as a member willing to develop this community.
Especially you know my relation to children. I love them! And for me it is the most important working unit, to guard and guide children and to help them to grow up. In case of MY home unit, a woman, who want to have children is wellcome. I imagine that three woman in a bigger home unit will organize themselves as a working unit “kids”. So very important. Familiafeliz must be and shall be a really good and brave place for growing up children and in my decissions about candidates this target is deeply grounded. It is a fundamental natural power to have children and we have to establish a social space for individual happiness. Therefor a mother taking care of the children is a full worker !!
if somebody make a break (2 years a world travel tour, 2 years in india, whatever…) the question is, if she/he goes without communication and interaction before ,or if she/he exlain the members of her/his working units something about the background of this trip? And at the end yes. imagine, if we are 6 people and we have 2 home units, and 3 of this 6 will go to india for 3 years… what is the real life of the community than? So my personal answer is this: woman taking care of children are still in, kindergarden school, home school, UNIIE – the free university of informal education we founded in 2015/16 – all this could be part of a unit.
Long trips to discover yourself in India might be a problem, but keep in mind, the decission is made in the next plenum. So if one person make a trip of 2 years and is holding the line (sometimes mail, sometimes calls) i think, nobody will apply for his/her exclusion in the plenum.
Mir fällt an der Stelle auf, dass Ihr einen starken Fokus darauf legt, dass man unliebsame Leute auch wieder loswird, und ich verstehe gut, warum Dir das wichtig ist; wir hatten über Negativbeispiele gesprochen, als ich in Windeck war. Andererseits ist das, was Menschen suchen, ein Gefühl der Zugehörigkeit. Zugehörigkeit kann sowohl strukturell als auch zwischenmenschlich begründet sein und empfunden werden, und eine Gemeinschaft tut m.E. gut daran, beides nicht zu stark auseinanderdriften zu lassen. Im Gegenteil: Beide Aspekte sollten sich ergänzen und sich nicht widersprechen. Auch deshalb finde ich den automatischen Ausschluss aus der Gruppe durch Verlassen der letzten Working Unit für bestenfalls potienziell unpopulär.
Translation: I realize at this moment, that you put a strong focus on rejecting unlikely members and i understand this, we talked about that issue in windeck. But on the other hand people are looking for community, for links, for the feeling to be part of something. This feeling grows based on structure and between people. It is useful for a community if both aspects are closed together and not drifting in different ways. The opposite is right, both aspects should add in merging and not exclude the other. Automatically exclusion of a member is – in a best case – an unpopular item.
If you are willing to join FamiliaFeliz you have to exept the charter. This implies, that you understand very well that we all want to develop a place for personell happiness. To work on that, we have to ask ourselves what we have to do to create this space for ourselves – first – and than to donate power to projects around – organized by other members, which are useful to fullfill this target. Thats it. And this implies, that it is something you have to create by yourself and not something you will find in FamiliaFeliz.
I imagine that this will be a big problem for a lot of potential candidats. But we think, it would be a fake to simulate we could help them to find heir happiness, hopefully we could support a social space to make it able to find it for this new member, not more.
And yes, if i want to be part of the group i have to work on that, forever. There is no rescue zone or comfort zone. Its daily life, to ask yourself what you could do to mke the life more rich for yourself and for the members around you. If you are lazy with that, no chance.
3.1 Dreimal nacheinander, oder drei Mal während der gesamten Mitgliedschaft?
Translation: three times in a line or three times at all (lifetime)?
The first of course 🙂
» In order to keep the community group organizationally stable each member is obligated to actively shape the concerns of the community group.« Diesen Satz verstehe ich nicht, bzw. ist er noch sehr vage.
Translation: I dont understand this sentence and its not clear at all.
I think the main word is actively in this sentence. This should the member remind that he is responsible for active interaction inside the community decission making processes. I dont want to listen a member in a plenum: sorry, nobody told me that! – and this for two reasons:
1. This means that this person is not involved in important processes of the group and he didnt realize that, until it occurs in a plenum, bad for him…
2. There are other members of FamiliaFeliz, who try to organize something – maybe to fullfill their space of happiness – without talking to this guy, bad for them…
translate it with: be active, dont wait! talk!
»Personal income (e.g. salary, rent, pension, family support, unemployment
benefit etc.) goes to the community group, but its administration remains in the hands of the member.« Wie soll das gehen? Wenn die Gruppe das Geld hat, wird sie es verwalten, oder nicht? Und wer übernimmt das eigentlich für die Gruppe?
Translation: Who this should be handled? If the group owned the money, how she will handle this, and who will be responsible inside the group for that?
Yes! Another big goal for us, to have this question here. First, you have to understand this:
FamiliaFeliz is a living community with shared economy. We do not share the money, we share the economy, and our currency is happiness. Also Familiafeliz is a less-powerfull community with powerful members, and we trust each member. This means.
Yes, if you would join FamiliaFeliz, your money would be still at your bank account. Maybe you would live far away form other members in your own home unit. You organize the cash flow of this money by yourself, we trust you! You will pay your flat, your car and so on, but this was part of the deal, you give the usufructus of the car to the community. So it makes sense tht you organize this. We trust you!
There is no common bank account, no minister of economics in FamiliaFeliz or its groups. Everybody manage and organze her/his own part.
The common economy you meet in the interaction – donation !! – between the members. If you have more money than you need for your personal needs – again – we trust you – than you could look and listen, where other members apply for some projects.
The thinking behind: we do not want to have an office controlling the cash flow of FamiliaFeliz. We want hat every member is an active part of guarding and guiding the economical situation of the group. Only this deep understanding will enable this member to have a basement in votings in the community plenum about investments.
3.6 Welchen Unterschied gibt es zwischen Separation und Division? In der Praxis? Ich denke, dass in der Praxis sich immer irgendwo eine kleine Gruppe bildet, die dann aus der großen aussteigt.
Translation: What is the main difference between separation and division? In praxis there will be ever a little group, leaving the big one?
division: “For each new group this charter is still valid without changes.” Thats the point. We think, if we grow to a number more than 64 we need a division, but everybody should have the security to live in her/his home unit and work in his/her working unit as before under the same condition with the same charter!
separation: this opens a door for members, who want to change something inside of the charter. In that case the charter of the original group will be the same, the charter of the new seperated group will be different.
3.6.2 »Without plenary decision« verstehe ich nicht.
Translation: i dont understand this.
Ok, it means, if a part of a group want to leave, we have to accept it without any decission on top of it. We have no right to limit the future of somebody you want to break out for which reason ever.
—-2016/10/13 at 19:17 #1047martin eismannParticipant
Ok, Juan, thank you! Many things are much clearer now. Two more things to mention:
1) A question: If raising kids together is a valid working unit, is raising kids alone a valid one, too? And what is a “valid” working unit anyway (I mean, I know that the plenum will decide that, but: along which lines will this decision be made? Will the WU be valid when it promotes the groups happiness, your currency 😉 ?)?
2) A response to your concept of membership: I understand that membership is a precious thing, even more so as it can make a person the recipient of substantial material donation when less wealthy. So it does make sense, that you protect and value it. But it seems to me that the thread of losing membership is also your major leverage in making things work in the group, more precisely: in making people generate happiness for others. This goes along with my feeling that you do not create a “community” in a more narrow sense. I have to explain this:
For now it looks to me like you want to create a community of strong people who stay among themselves so as not to be bothered by weak people bullying them around. Some people have indeed excessive needs and tend to throw them at the community rather than fulfilling them for themselves, which can be a bloody nuisance. Still, my personal requirement to a community that I would indeed call community is that it offers a space to join and grow––for weak people to grow into strong ones, that is. The outside world creates enough losers in every possible way, it is time to heal that (call it a “rescue zone”, if you want). I understand that this is not your aspiration––fine. And your idea will sure work: for a decent person of average social competence it may not be too hard a thing to actively integrate into the group and maintain membership. This may change during a time of hardship, however. People may get sick and become a burden to the community, or they just grow old and need help in everyday activities. I assume that you have an answer and solutions for these common cases, but still I miss that thing, solidarity, in your charter. What about this example: Life strikes me hard, subsequently I fall into a depression for several years; I retreat from all my working units and only do the bare minimum to keep myself alive. A community that deserves the name should be able to hold this. If your charter is strictly applied, I would have to leave the group.
It may be the name “Familia” Feliz, that is misguiding me here. Contrary to what you intend to build, a family usually is a “comfort zone”, a “rescue zone”, it is a static, not a dynamic bond and it creates that feeling of belonging precisely because I do not need to “work forever to be part of the group”. The ideal community that I think of uses membership withdrawal as ultimo ratio only, and in all other cases negotiates issues as they arise. And yes, I am aware that this needs even more social competence than to create happiness for others, and can be a bloody nuisance, too.
Or did I get it completely wrong? Is the “group” with its plenum more of an operational gathering, whereas community and the sense of belonging is created informally in home units and in friendship? If so, how solidary could those possibly be?2016/10/13 at 19:33 #1048martin eismannParticipant
Also, I think that a 12 month test period for a candidate is very long. Nobody wants to live with you for a year just to learn that one or two people veto their staying. Especially people beyond thirty want to settle at some point. When it is so easy to get rid of people in FF, why not shortening the period to three months?
I once met a woman who was looking for a community where to live with her little daughter. They got rejected at the end of the trial year by two other women vetoing. This is not the kind of situation that you want to face with your daughter when you want to provide a home for her.2016/10/13 at 21:31 #1051
thanks for using the forum.
1) A question: If raising kids together is a valid working unit, is raising kids alone a valid one, too? And what is a “valid” working unit anyway (I mean, I know that the plenum will decide that, but: along which lines will this decision be made? Will the WU be valid when it promotes the groups happiness, your currency?)?
a unit is a combination of ressources (humans,tools,knowledge) and a target. a “valid” unit in familiafeliz is a unit with MINIMUM one MEMBER of familiafeliz and the plenum has to confirm the unit as a accredited working unit if this member applies for that and the plenum agrees. in your sample: if a woman with a children would come to spain (like mariella did) and i take care of the children too, than this is possibly a working unit “kindergarden” 🙂 – in that example margret with noah was a second candidate with a second children, so it was a WU (i like this shortcut!) with two candidats and one member.
The dicission, if a unit is accredited in the plenum is made by the members, i could write here only about me and my opinion.
My main question, if i would agree in confirmin a WU, is, if all ressources are available for the unit, to reach the target. I mean, is the unit really independent. Thats the point. I want no struggle with power and stress between HU and WU and members.
Some people have indeed excessive needs and tend to throw them at the community rather than fulfilling them for themselves, which can be a bloody nuisance. Still, my personal requirement to a community that I would indeed call community is that it offers a space to join and grow––for weak people to grow into strong ones, that is.
i think we are not so far away. keep in mind, the charter explain the minimums and maximums. In that case we want to define, that there is no right to take or to apply for that, what you call “community feeling”. But you know me a little and also antje and corinna. We like a lot to join groups and to enjoy compagnionship with friends. I run since 10 years the artist residence CASAdelDRAGON in Cervera with more than 150 guests in that time period. So let me quote an important sentence from my upcomming cmment to the charter: “This charter sets out how we have lived so far and does not describe how we will live together with YOU!”
I will place this on the front page as a red line of what i want to explain. The charter is a corridor of options, at the end the group decides, how they act and what they will do. Even in WUs and HUs they construct there own habits to live together, independent from the charter and the plenum and the other members, not involved in these WUs and HUs.
I imagine a lot of people NEED to organize this community feeling to feel good by themselves. So it is a MUST HAVE for these people and i have no problem with this. BUT i dont want to simulate for those people, that they have the right to expect this from everybody in the group.
but still I miss that thing, solidarity, in your charter. What about this example: Life strikes me hard, subsequently I fall into a depression for several years; I retreat from all my working units and only do the bare minimum to keep myself alive. A community that deserves the name should be able to hold this. If your charter is strictly applied, I would have to leave the group.
no no. depression is something, we have to handle inside the group and we did this twice in the last 5 years. Please see the charter as a handout, what you could expect and what not. This is only the minimum of interaction, yes, and for sure it will be not the maximum from each member. To create a community we need different people, like a clan situation of animals. Some are more looking to outside, looking for ressources for the family. Some are more looking to inside, guiding and guarding the members. Both we like and both we support. But… again, it is no need to act so.
It may be the name “Familia” Feliz, that is misguiding me here. Contrary to what you intend to build, a family usually is a “comfort zone”, a “rescue zone”, it is a static, not a dynamic bond and it creates that feeling of belonging precisely because I do not need to “work forever to be part of the group”.
Thats a good point. i have to think about that!! But again, familiafeliz and this charter is a definition of a clan group, donating to other members of the same group. This advantage in surviving will be important in the future. It is not a substitution of a intimite couple relation, a so-called classical family or any other intimite relation between people. The charter decribes how this group interact to realize this advantage, and this group life of familiafeliz at the end is defined by the members…
Or did I get it completely wrong? Is the “group” with its plenum more of an operational gathering, whereas community and the sense of belonging is created informally in home units and in friendship? If so, how solidary could those possibly be?
I think thats the point!! This we have to discover. The experience with some people last year was not so nice, but we hope to find the right people. Deep friendship is the basement, and maybe only 1% would fit in this. But if we could meet 1% of 1% of those people, it would be a lot…
i add some about your second comment…
When it is so easy to get rid of people in FF, why not shortening the period to three months?
I once met a woman who was looking for a community where to live with her little daughter. They got rejected at the end of the trial year by two other women vetoing. This is not the kind of situation that you want to face with your daughter when you want to provide a home for her.
The last experience with candidates gave us a brief experience about the time period. 12 month is the minimum to understand another person more or less. Including the complex situation, that we are all traveling form one HU to another HU. Also we are international, its a question in with country you want to life, you need time to look for a school, a kindergarden, maybe a job… you have to meet ressources WUs, members… 12 month is ok.
Please keep also in mind, that we are not kidding the people. If we are sure we will reject the candidate we explain this as soon as possible. Also for the candidate is one thing important! Every candidate is a full member in all WUs and in her/his HU with all rights incuding veto right! The only difference between a member and a candidate is, that she/he has no voting right in the plenum! So from this point, every candidate starts in familiafeliz from the beginning as a “nearly full member”!2016/10/25 at 13:02 #1220
Hello to all,
here comes the comment of the German Ladies on David’s proposal :-))
We write between the lines.
Firstly to say thanks very very much for all the work you put into this. We really do appreciate your input, David.
Corinna2016/10/25 at 13:36 #1221
FamiliaFeliz is a decentralised ´living community´ with a shared economy, organised by members into groups (or entities) and governed by this fixed, primary-charter (1.).
Comment: We agree on another term than “preamble”. However, we prefer “community charter” instead of “primary charter” as this fits much better with the following “group charter”. Community and group are much more peers than would be primary and group.
Comment: As the first sentence what is FaFe was moved up into the first paragraph (which is perfectly fine!) we recommend to change the headline here into “1.1 General”
Each group must incorporate this fixed primary-charter and acts independently under its own group-charter (2.). Decisions in group plenums are made by consensus. Each member has the right of veto. Groups can merge in a unified plenum under this main-charter (and a redesigned charter? – forgot to ask you to clarify this bit).
Comment: Groups can merge in a unified plenum under this main-charter and a redesigned group charter.
The decision about merger is taken in a group plenum and shall be the last topic.
Comment: exchange “primary charter” and “main charter” by “community charter”
FamiliaFeliz is committed to freedom, tolerance and personal happiness. It offers an open social space for all its associated friends, candidate-members and members who are organised, working and living in units (eg. Home Unit, Garden Unit etc).
Comment: the general change of candidates into “candidate-members” is fine.
Membership of FamiliaFeliz belongs only to those who accept their group-charter and is a member of at least one working unit.
FamiliaFeliz develops sustainable social and economic well-being and security in harmony with its environment and nature. FamiliaFeliz practices a shared economy based on non-conditional, self-responsible donation of resources/assets and sets a distinction between ownership and the
possession of usufruct/enjoyment/benefits deriving therefrom.
Knowledge transfer and cooperation are the preferred means of contribution to the improvement of the community and the surrounding society.
2. Group-Charter of the FamiliaFeliz group EL-DRAC (hereinafter referred to as “group”)
This is the fixed group-charter for all members and units of the existing group.
The group plenum is the central decision-making organ consisting of the group members. Meetings are open to the public and held once a year. The group plenum decides about: admission and exclusion of members, accreditation of units, dissolution (double s) of the group. Possible exclusion of members shall always be the first, possible inclusion of members shall always be the second and group division or separation shall always be the third topic of the agenda. Each member has one vote. Voting rights are not transferable. Candidate-members have no voting rights but have the right to speak in the plenum.
New units have to be accepted by the group plenum as a home unit or a working unit. A unit combines resources with an objective. At least one member of the group has to be a member of a unit. A unit plenum decides about: entry and exclusion of members, development, objective, organisation, dissolution of the unit.
Any person who is at least twenty-three years old and accepts the primary (community-) – and group-charter can apply for membership. Upon recommendation of at least one working unit the yearly group plenum decides about admission. If the applicant is accepted they have the status of candidate-member for a twelve month trial-period. The period can be terminated by the candidate-member or any member at any time. After six months the candidate-member has to present their proposal for an entry and exit agreement which is binding upon the vote on membership. The group plenum decides about entry.
Start a new paragraph….
A member loses their right to vote in the group plenum if another member applies for their exclusion. Each member can apply for the
exclusion of one member per year. If the application for exclusion is rejected by the group plenum the member gets back the right to vote after all applications for exclusions in that plenary session are decided. A member is excluded if the group plenum agrees on their exclusion, or if they are not a member of any working unit, or by triple successive absence from group plenums (ie. a maximum of three years without attendance).
The basic procedure in the group is the dialogue in plenum.
3.1 Service and contribution
All services and contributions transferred between members are donations. They are given voluntarily and without expectation of a return service or benefit.
Ownership of a candidate-member’s or member’s personal resources and assets remains with the person. Possession of usufruct/enjoyment/benefits goes to the group members and candidate-members. The group members and candidate-members are responsible for the necessary payments for saving contracts, insurances, mortgages and other obligations arising from possession.
Comment: very good idea to change “property” into “resources and assets” in the first sentence. Makes it much clearer. Also good idea to already include the candidate-members into rights AND obligations.
Personal income goes to the group members and candidate-members. However, each member or candidate-member remains personally responsible for the allocation of this income in terms of self-consumption or donation.
3.2.3 Economic balance
The members and candidate-members strive for economic balance amongst themselves. If less wealthy members agree, ownership of new assets is given to them.
3.3 Exit of a member
Upon leaving, a member or candidate-member takes all their property out of the group. Further details are regulated as per their exit agreement.
3.4 Group division and group separation
A group has a maximum of sixty-four members. If the number of members exceeds eight the group may be divided. If the number of members exceeds sixty-four the group shall be divided. Each new group shall have a minimum of four members. (This process is called group division. .. is this necessary wording?) Each member has the right to declare to which new group they want to belong. For each new group this charter is still valid without changes
Comment: delete “This process is called group division”. For each new group this GROUP charter is still valid without changes. Further clarifications should be added to the commentary.
A minimum of four members can apply for separation, if each new group has at least four members. (This process is called group separation. .. again?) Each member has the right to declare to which new group they want to belong. Any changes of the charter the new separated group wants to make requires acceptance by its first group plenum.
Comment: delete “This process is called group separation”. Any changes of the GROUP charter the new separated group wants to make requires acceptance by its first group plenum.
Both group division and group separation shall be declared at the yearly group plenum without plenary decision.
Europe, 01.11.20162016/10/25 at 13:37 #1222
it sounds so much more elegant now and is much easier to read :-))2016/10/25 at 17:53 #1230
hello all, hello corinna,
thanks for your post.
sorry i cold not agree in this. step by step…
we talked about preamble and charter and the mistaken word preamble. the situation is this:
a + b = c
in this case the charter c is composed by two things with are NOT a charter
a + b (extender) = c (group)
in this case we could name a charter, b extender and c complete group charter
i was thinking after the last call we talked about the second situation. in this case i could not agree in this words like “main charter” for b and “primary charter for a.
i would prefer:
main charter instead of “primary charter”
group charter instead of “Group-Charter of the FamiliaFeliz group EL-DRAC”
“FamiliaFeliz is a decentralised ´living community´ with a shared economy, organised by members into groups (or entities) and governed by this fixed, primary-charter (1.).”
Question 1: “into” or “in”
Question 2: we have common economy in the subline of the website, we should write only common OR shared … what is the best?
Question 3: what means (1.)? – i dont like any () in a charter!
Question 4: why now new words like “fixed” instead of “non-negociable”, for me fixed is not the same meaning!! – my feeling is, it is to much far from the text we had before david was making corrections.
also my feeling is, that the text changed to much. we had a text and the target was not to change another time, only to erase wrong words and grammar…
sample “(or entities)” – no – i can not agree in this, another time ()…
3. “candidate-members and members” – sounds not good for me, its the same like “members” and “group members” – to much….
sorry i hang up. to much difficult to read this with all the comments in between the post. please send me this charter draft without comments as a doc to print it and verify with the old version before david.
and sorry for that but this new version is to much different for me.
2016/11/07 at 18:38 #1311
- This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by juan petry. Reason: erase mistakes :)
hello to all,
we had a guest fom australia in the spanish home unit and she was so nice to add some grammar and right-spelling changes to the last common version.
her changes are based on the last common version of 2016-09-21 (not implementing the ideas of david).
thanks to rebecca metcalf!
i will add – as requested from David, an update of the structure for 2.1.3 (member) later here. and after this david will publish his version.2016/11/07 at 20:59 #1312
hello to all,
now my new structure for 2.1.3 and ff.
Any person who is at least 23 years old and accepts the charter can apply for membership. Upon recommendation of at least one working unit the yearly group plenum decides about admission. If the applicant is accepted, he or she has the status of a candidate for a 12-month-test period. Either the candidate or any member can terminate the period at any time. After six months the candidate has to present proposals for an entry and exit agreement, which is binding with the vote on membership. The group plenum decides about entry.
2.1.4 Exclusion by application
A member loses his right to vote in the group plenum if another member applies for his exclusion. Each member can apply for exclusion of one member per year. If the application for exclusion is rejected by the group plenum, the member gets back the right to vote, after all applications for exclusions in this plenary session are decided.
2.1.5 Exclusion by absence
A member is excluded if the group plenum agrees on his exclusion or if he is not member of any working unit or by triple successive absence from group plenum.
… this is based on the changed draft from rebecca…
cu juan2016/11/09 at 16:34 #13152016/11/10 at 20:27 #13402017/01/10 at 15:57 #1439
Hello to all,
here is the latest final draft version in English with ONE change, not really a change of content, but more in terms of clear wording ;=)
We changed the following paragraph, because we think that the first sentence was not necessary and may even be misleading:
Personal income goes to the group members. Each member remains personally responsible for the allocation of this income in terms of self-consumption or donation.
We opted for a shorter and clearer explanation:
Each member remains personally responsible for the allocation of his personal income in terms of self-consumption or donation to the group members.
Moreover, we are now proud to present a German version of this draft. It should help people who are non-native speakers to understand the charter, although we agree that the English version remains the official one.
Here is the German pdf
Here is the English pdf
2017/01/14 at 18:02 #1442
- This reply was modified 2 years, 11 months ago by Corinna Klein.
thanks for your version.
1. i miss content in “3.2.3 Economic balance” where is the rest of the text?
2. organized and similar – more correct organised (yes?)?
3. i miss the doc file of the english version. please upload or send me by mail.
then i will publish the new draft here (as the last one) – formated 🙂 with logo 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.