charter – the general structure of content

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  • #501
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    hello to all,
    i would like to define a structure to fill the content in order. here is my draft.

    preambel

    familiafeliz
    – main targets
    – restrictions, limits

    organs
    – plenum
    – – yearly
    – – order of topics
    – – consens
    – – veto
    – units
    – – working
    – – home
    – members
    – – membership
    – – – join
    – – – leave

    do you miss any topic for the content list?

    #508
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    so lets start to fill up the sequence…

    preambel

    FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.

    To FamiliaFeliz belongs, who except the charter of its cell and is member of minimum one working unit.

    This is the non-negotiable charter of FamiliaFeliz cell 0.1.

    familiafeliz
    – main targets

    Shared economy based on non-conditional self-responsible donation of ressources and distinction between ownership and possession.

    – restrictions, limits

    organs
    – plenum
    – – yearly
    – – order of topics
    – – consens
    – – veto
    – units
    – – working
    – – home
    – members
    – – membership
    – – – join
    – – – leave

     

    comment: yes. it is a little bit tricky to implement cell in the way of thinking. i remember veith – a guest in one of the info days: you are more a umbrella organization than a community… we talked about three possible ways out of the community: dead, exclusion,cell division.  for that reason i would like to use for our first “cell” the terminus cell and for the general umbrella the word FamiliaFeliz. in the daily life it will be commod and useful and ok if we explain that we are member of familiafeliz, in fact we will be member of one cell of familiafeliz.

    following that, we could say:

    there is a cell plenum (every year).

    a member is a cell member, a unit is a cell unit. if we define a possible way out with cell division, and if we define, that in the process of cell division the charter is negotiable, we could expect, that after the cell devision we have two cells with two charters.

    from this point it makes sense for me, to define

    familiafeliz (group of cells)

    cell (group of units)

    unit (group of members and associated friends)

    member

    in case of unit we could think twice and very smart. we have 3 units (not only 2, as we expected before…):

    home unit (where people live together)

    working unit (where people work together)

    organ units (cell plenum, unit plenum, where people decide together)

    it makes absolutely sense to think the plenum as a unit. it has a traget, it has members, it has tools (ressources) and it should be functional.

    it also make sense to be open and clear about the units. what is a unit plenum and what is the meeting of Shareholders (of a company, organized as a unit)? – its easy. the unit plenum is the reunion of members of the cell of familiafeliz, and it is a sub group of the members of this unit.

     

    we could define that we decide in plenum in consensus and each member has a veto, but respecting the interfaces of a society we have to accept strong law and order if the unit is a company (or association)…

     

     

    #515
    norbert
    Participant

    Hey 🙂

    Now i understand a bit more. Thank you 🙂
    To me it is a good idea to use this definitions so i will do it.

    Ok – we are founding the first cell of FamiliaFeliz.
    1. FamiliaFeliz is a group of independent cells.
    2. The shared economy is active inside a cell (between its own units) and also active between cells.
    3. The shared economy is based on voluntariness (Freiwilligkeit).
    4. Each cell has its own charter.
    5. There are no defined official relations between cells (like an umbrella-plenum, a constitution in which borders the charters has to be or something else).

    That means to me (to use an extrem example):
    It can happen after cell division that there is one cell consisting of neo-liberals and another cell consisting of communists.
    Both of them can be part of FamiliaFeliz if they define that in their charters.
    But that is the only relation between them because the shared economy is based on voluntariness and no cell has to give any donation.

    Or it can happen that after cell devision there are two cells with identical feelings, meanings and maybe charters.

    Ok – these are two exteremes; to me the second sounds a bit like paradise and the first like hell 😉
    Cause i do not believe in god or devil i would say that both situations are not realistic.
    But we have to admit that there are constellations possible that we do not expect and maybe do not want.

    —–
    I like the definition of three different units (home, work, organ).

    we could define that we decide in plenum in consensus and each member has a veto, but respecting the interfaces of a society we have to accept strong law and order if the unit is a company (or association)…

    That is what i mean in my post here.

    lg, Norbert

    #518
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    cell division could create these samples. in the second case it will be a friendly world of co-existence nd possibly a lot of cooperation options.

    It can happen after cell division that there is one cell consisting of neo-liberals and another cell consisting of communists.
    Both of them can be part of FamiliaFeliz if they define that in their charters.
    But that is the only relation between them because the shared economy is based on voluntariness and no cell has to give any donation.

    yes. not best case, but possible. and no interaction between this cells. that it. possible. but why thats hell?

    #519
    norbert
    Participant

    Good morning 🙂

    yes. not best case, but possible. and no interaction between this cells. that it. possible. but why thats hell?

    You are right. It is not hell. It is a part of freedom.

    #520
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    to norbert
    ———-

    yes. i think, the main goal of this charter will be to describe for non-members how it works – and NOT to be a set of rules for the members. this means, in fact the charter address the non-members and not so much the members. to put it into a more funny context: the charter is for better anderstanding (and a form of memory storage for members).

    and to combine this posts with what we have talked about in the infoday: if i am part of something, which is the opposite of what i could read in the charter of my cell, i will leave 🙂 quickly 🙂

    lets continue the work…

    #522
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    more content for the preambel of the charter
    ——————————————–

    preambel

    FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.

    To FamiliaFeliz belongs, who accept the charter of its cell and is member of minimum one working unit.

    This is the non-negotiable charter of FamiliaFeliz cell 0.1.

    familiafeliz
    – main targets

    FamiliaFeliz develop shared economy based on non-conditional self-responsible donation of ressources and distinction between ownership and possession.

    Decissions made in plenum by consens including veto for each member.

    – restrictions, limits

    Each community cell of Familiafeliz has minimum 4 and maximum 64 members. Bigger than 32 it could divided into cells, bigger than 64 it must be devided into cells.

    This is the non-negotiable preambel  of all FamiliaFeliz cells.

    organs
    – plenum
    – – yearly
    – – order of topics
    – – consens
    – – veto
    – units
    – – working
    – – home
    – members
    – – membership
    – – – join
    – – – leave

    comment:

    #526
    norbert
    Participant

    Hey Juan 🙂

    To FamiliaFeliz belongs, who except the charter of its cell and is member of minimum one working unit.

    Do you mean “accept” instead of “except” here?

    and to combine this posts with what we have talked about in the infoday: if i am part of something, which is the opposite of what i could read in the charter of my cell, i will leave 🙂 quickly 🙂

    Yes i remember 🙂
    For sure everyone can leave anytime for any reason without asking anyone. That is also a part of freedom.

    I would like to discuss someday what the relations between freedom and responsibility are. But maybe thats for an evening with some more people and a glass of wine 😉

    #528
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    accept – sorry. i will update.. juan

    #530
    norbert
    Participant

    Good morning 🙂

    – restrictions, limits

    Each community cell of Familiafeliz has minimum 4 and maximum 64 members. Bigger than 32 it could divided into cells, bigger than 64 it must be devided into cells.

    This is the non-negotiable preambel of all FamiliaFeliz cells.

    Do you want to say that this part is a “must have” in the charter of every new cell?
    Or do you want to say that the whole preambel to this point is a “must have” for every new charter of a new cell?

    In the second case the sentence above
    “This is the non-negotiable charter of FamiliaFeliz cell 0.1.”
    is obsolete i guess respectively should stand above the following stucture.

    Just to show what i mean:

    preambel

    FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.

    To FamiliaFeliz belongs, who accept the charter of its cell and is member of minimum one working unit.

    This is the non-negotiable charter of FamiliaFeliz cell 0.1.

    familiafeliz
    – main targets

    FamiliaFeliz develop shared economy based on non-conditional self-responsible donation of ressources and distinction between ownership and possession.

    Decissions made in plenum by consens including veto for each member.

    – restrictions, limits

    Each community cell of Familiafeliz has minimum 4 and maximum 64 members. Bigger than 32 it could divided into cells, bigger than 64 it must be devided into cells.

    This is the non-negotiable preambel of all FamiliaFeliz cells.

    Here the charter of the first cell begins:
    This is the non-negotiable charter of FamiliaFeliz cell 0.1.

    organs
    – plenum
    – – yearly
    – – order of topics
    .
    .
    .

    lg, Norbert

    #532
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    i am thinking different. we have familiafeliz and its cells. if we have 32 persons in one cell we have the possibility that it will be divided into 2 new cells of the second generation or that some people went out of the original cell and start something different (and i mean different of familiafeliz).
    so what is the conjunction between two cells and one cell and some people in another community? in the second case i see nothing. in the first my idea is, that the preambel is it. so i think.

    if a new cell will be still part of the familiafeliz movenemt it should be one link between the cells. in that case the unique non-negotiable preambel is the link. also, because each cell could have its own charter 🙂

    so. for all cells the preambel is non-negotiable. for MY OWN CELL the charter is non-negotiable.

    🙂

    #533
    norbert
    Participant

    Hi Juan 🙂

    I think i understand 🙂
    In that case i suggest the following:

    preambel

    FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.

    To FamiliaFeliz belongs, who accept the charter of its cell and is member of minimum one working unit.

    This is the non-negotiable charter of FamiliaFeliz cell 0.1.
    This is the non-negotiable preambel of FamiliaFeliz and all of its cells.

    The following is the non-negotiable charter of the first FamiliaFeliz cell.
    familiafeliz
    – main targets

    FamiliaFeliz develop shared economy based on non-conditional self-responsible donation of ressources and distinction between ownership and possession.

    Decissions made in plenum by consens including veto for each member.

    – restrictions, limits

    Each community cell of Familiafeliz has minimum 4 and maximum 64 members. Bigger than 32 it could divided into cells, bigger than 64 it must be devided into cells.

    This is the non-negotiable preambel of all FamiliaFeliz cells.

    organs
    – plenum
    – – yearly
    .
    .
    .

    That makes it clear to me that the preambel (which describes the vision of FamiliaFeliz) is unchangeable for any following FamiliaFeliz-charter.
    So the preambel is the link between all cells of FamiliaFeliz – i like that idea.

    lg, Norbert

    #535
    Corinna Klein
    Moderator

    Hi all,
    I come into this discussion rather quick, with little time to read through all your thoughts and ideas and even only because I cheated a bit on my time in the works council ;). Anyway, as I agree this charta is of rather high priority to us as a community I want to share some of my immediate thoughts with you too. These are not yet reflected, it is only what came to my mind in the last 10 minutes.
    I kind of wrote between the lines as I think it is easier to have the original text as well.

    “FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.”

    I would not call familia feliz a network. We may have characteristics a network has, too, but this is coincidence. A network for me is more lose, not concrete enough. Familia feliz is a living community with a set of rules – even if only few – a clear objective (maximize personal happiness) and a clear declaration of intention of each member (and member in spe) to apply these few rules (charta) and to care for the community as a whole. A network does not act like this and has a totally different center.

    “a member is a cell member, a unit is a cell unit. If we define a possible way out with cell division, and if we define, that in the process of cell division the charter is negotiable, we could expect, that after the cell devision we have two cells with two charters.”

    I would rather think of two separate living communities afterwards. It might be that both communities apply the ideas of familia feliz we are thinking of now but on the other hand it might not. Maybe they decide to move in a different direction…..

    “from this point it makes sense for me, to define
    familiafeliz (group of cells)
    cell (group of units)
    unit (group of members and associated friends)
    member”

    For me familia feliz is just a living community. The terminus “cell” is technically ok but in my opinion not necessary. This would add a level of theoretic administration I don’t think useful. For me “unit” is sufficient for all organizational sub-groups within the living community. This can be a home unit or working unit.

    “in case of unit we could think twice and very smart. we have 3 units (not only 2, as we expected before…):
    home unit (where people live together)
    working unit (where people work together)
    organ units (cell plenum, unit plenum, where people decide together)

    it makes absolutely sense to think the plenum as a unit. it has a traget, it has members, it has tools (ressources) and it should be functional.
    it also make sense to be open and clear about the units. what is a unit plenum and what is the meeting of Shareholders (of a company, organized as a unit)? – its easy. the unit plenum is the reunion of members of the cell of familiafeliz, and it is a sub group of the members of this unit.”

    For me “organ unit” is difficult. First I thought ok, makes sense. But the more I think about it, the more I don’t like it. In our first idea we said that there is a plenum of all members of familia feliz once a year.
    Inside the unit, any unit, the members of this unit decide on the regulation how, where, when they need an internal plenum. We could call this organ of any unit, ok. But I don’t think this needs to be defined in the Charta. Maybe a unit wants to set up a paper with rules on how to get together, maybe not. This should be up to the unit.

    “yes. i think, the main goal of this charter will be to describe for non-members how it works – and NOT to be a set of rules for the members. this means, in fact the charter address the non-members and not so much the members. to put it into a more funny context: the charter is for better anderstanding (and a form of memory storage for members).”

    Especially because the charta should explain how it works and not define rules it should be kept broad. In my opinion the units should be explained as groups within the living community (home or working), ok. But it should not be defined in the charta how any unit organizes their way of decision making processes.

    “FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.”

    With this I do not agree. This might be the case after a cell division but is not today. We are not a network, we founded a living community. After a possible cell division there might be new communities which are multinational and multilingual, which offer open space for personal happiness, success and freedom. Or there might not. To take up one of Norberts examples, there might be a new community of communists. Or of radical Methodists. Or of whatever. They might think personal happiness needs to be dictated from a higher organ, a leader, a spirit,…. They might decide they only accept people from a certain country and only speak one language. This all would be sad in my personal opinion but if it happens, it happens and it is up to that new built community to decide how they want to live. Maybe they are connected to familia feliz then, maybe they don’t want anymore, maybe famila feliz does not want…..
    Anyhow it should not be part of our charta today.

    #536
    norbert
    Participant

    Hi Corinna,

    i am happy that you join this discussion and tell us your thoughts 🙂

    First let me say that my way of thinking is technichal and not social minted. That is a difference – not so much in the meaning but more in the words that i use.
    To me “Network” is a word that describes “some people interact with each other for the benifit of all”.
    “living community” instead is more abstract to me.

    And “network” is only used to describe the relation between cells of Familiafeliz – not the cells itself.

    But as i understand you do not like to define in the charta what happend after the division of Familiafeliz.
    In fact then FamiliaFeliz will end and something new will be born.
    That must not be bad – but it is hard to understand for “newcomers”.
    In that case there is no definition of cells needed yet and the word “network” is obsolete – just because there is nothing after division besides two (or more) groups of people where noone can say what they will do.

    For “normal” people (those who are thinking in ways like “marriage, getting childs and build a home” which are all different words for “secure living”) that could be unimaginable. But maybe that is also not bad.

    To me it is no longer a problem not to define what happens after the defined division of FamiliaFeliz but to me it is also no problem to define it yet in the charter – i can deal with both.

    #538
    juan petry
    Keymaster

    to corinna
    ———-

    first – as norbert wrote – thanks for joining. dont care about the time, we are all busy in tasks and familiafeliz is the result of all this tasks. so it is full of value that you join now.

    the general aspect to define a level between familiafeliz and units was, to create a defined enviroment of possibli existing cells for exchange, collaboration and “marriage”. and we have abig reason for that.

    do you remember gottfried from tuebingen in one infoday. a wise guy with 18 years of experience in being part of an living community. he said: maybe your compact nucleus of the group of founders will it make easier for groups (or families) to join instead of single persons, mainly in the beginning of growing.

    that sentence was in my mind, also some facts here in spain, which are very present for me but not jet communicated because we are all in different tasks. we meet three times people from the berlin/barcelone living community. even the shaolin monk idji like the open concept of familiafeliz too. so why not defining a clear surrounding of leaving and possibly coming “groups”. that was the intention.

    and in order to the length of the content we could kept this enviroment in a few sentences. thats for me a very important point.

    so pleae give me the chance to fill the next parts – step by step. i also will add ideas from your mail and a mail from antje.

    “the unit plenum is the reunion of members of the cell of familiafeliz, and it is a sub group of the members of this unit.(corinna)”

    we talked before about units. functional units are combination of members (and eventually not-members), ressources and target. the main target to verifiy a unit is for me, to look on its ressources. if the unit has all what it need to proceed, yo be functional, THAN it is a verified familiafeliz unit.

    so i do not understand the last part. we dont want sub-groups or sub-units. we do not want that one unit has power over another unit.

    the reason to implement organ units like cell plenum or unit plenum is, that you could explain this very smart to new members. the unit of the cell plenum is, to run the yearly plenum and to follow the main process of developing the “cell”. the working unit plenum is the familiafeliz – delegation inside the working unit as the home unit plenum is the delegation inside the home unit (it is the base for members and candidates).

    so i understand that you do not like the level / layer “cell”, but if we focus the enviroment of familiafeliz, we should implement it, however we call it.

    Inside the unit, any unit, the members of this unit decide on the regulation how, where, when they need an internal plenum. We could call this organ of any unit, ok. But I don’t think this needs to be defined in the Charta. Maybe a unit wants to set up a paper with rules on how to get together, maybe not. This should be up to the unit (corinna).

    if in a charter of familiafeliz – or a cell of familiafeliz – is a piece of content which said, there IS in all working and home and organ units a plenum, it is easy to identifiy the exact reason to be funcional and official – or private hobby. so i agree that we divide between organ unit limitations because we want a yearly plenum with consens and veto and i want the same in the home unit. and i do not want to discuss this again and again in every new home or organ unit > my opinion – not more than this. but hopefully it express more why i am install this contect in the draft.

    But it should not be defined in the charta how any unit organizes their way of decision making processes.

    ok. this open a wide door. if we put nothing in the charter about any unit and their way of making decisions, this cell lost the beauty for me. i want to be sure about the process of decision making in each home unit – i want a charter which is non-negotiable in this item and members not wasting time to discuss this again and again.

    the question for me, is. if it should be also in the working unit plenum, because this is not the shareholder plenum! imagine: we have a chicken unit and we decide in germany under the headline consens in plenum with veto (antje do not want another type of animal now). ok. if there is a chicken unit in spain i like to be sure, that the “way of decision maiking is the same, IF the unit in germany and the unit in spain is defined by a group of members and not-members. this makes it much more easy for me to move from one home- unit to another. and moving is a value for members, yes ?

    “FamiliaFeliz is a network of decentralized multinational and multilingual living communities with shared economy. Each community is an independent cell with its own charter and an open social space for personal happyness, success and freedom of its associated friends, candidates and members, organized, working and living in units.”

    Anyhow it should not be part of our charta today (corinna).

    sonia is catalan an speak mostly cat, esp and engl. you are german with ger,eng, a little fra and esp… why you do not like decentralized multinational and multilingual… or is it again the “cell” in this construction?

    again. the uni prof monitoring us, said once: i am surpriced by the concept. it looks like new, a group founded without borders and exclusion of other… so. exactly this was the intension, to describe one group and not borders of a group. instead of borders i like to explain what somebody need to be or to do to be able to join.

    at the end of the day… it turns to a contrivers discussion and even this and all aspects are very important for the draft and for the process of creating this charter. and we are on a good way, if we open this process to public.

    i get several private mails with content discussion items about what happened here. but the reason for this tool – the forum – is in conjunction with an old tradition of demotratic processes. IT HAS TO BE IN PUPLIC. – forum romanum… and a lot of other.

    according to cecosesola in venezuela i like the wise knowledge of them. to have some rules (only some) makes it smart and easy and accessable. but to have some non-negotiable rules makes it much more smart. because the members of the future will not put their power in changing that. they could develop a new generation of familiafeliz (cells) or break out completly.

    anyway. thanks to corinna for brief input. maybe its opposide view but also this make it rich and powerful. the consens we have to find.

    i will continue later this night with an update…

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